Germany’s Carthaginian terms for Greece

10 Responses to “Germany’s Carthaginian terms for Greece”

1. Matt on February 13th, 2012 06:31 GMT
   

   this dude really knows how to take things out of context. What he is talking about re German debt relief was post war debt, with a very clear intention: To build Germany into a strong hold (building up the iron curtain) against the emerging Soviet powers under strict supervision of the allied forces. Do not forget that Germany was “occupied” for very long time through its French, British, and American bases on which nuclear and ballistic weaponry was stationed, aiming an emerging state of East Germany, Poland and USSR. What does this have to do with the current situation in Greece? If I was occupying Greece and could dictate pretty much and heavily influence the terms of any and all political decisions in Greece then I would be more than happy to increase debt forgiveness if it suit my agenda. This is CLEARLY Not the case with Germany.

   It becomes more and more apparent that there still is a huge amount of Angst before Germany, despite Germany having made EVERY EFFORT it could in post war times that it has no intention nor interest to ever rise to military power again. That Germany is an economic powerhouse should clearly be attributed to its abilities to design, manufacture, and export products that others want, NOT because such products are cheap (which they are clearly not in comparison). The whole debate of Germany being powerful thanks to its low DM/EUR preg is hilarious but without the slightest factual base. If you look at how the D-Mark traded before the peg you clearly see that it has not weakened by much against most other currencies for over a decade. Most opinions are supported by emotions rather than facts when it comes to Greeks’ attitude towards Germany. I am willing to bet (but I do not have numbers) that the aggregate of German investments in Greece is way lower than the one of French or Italian private bond holders.
2. Christine on February 13th, 2012 07:03 GMT
   

   You would actually loose your bet http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-05/german-banks-top-french-with-23-billion-in-greek-debt-bis-says.html
3. Matt on February 13th, 2012 07:55 GMT
   

   you are incorrect according to your cited report, French banks lead the pack when it comes to investments in Greece. You may be right in regards to sovereign debt but this is not what I claimed. I admitted I do not have numbers to back up my claim in the last sentence, however, the Bloomberg article seems pretty clear that French banks are most exposed to Greece overall.
4. Christine Pittet on February 13th, 2012 08:30 GMT
   

   Dear Mat,
   You are actually mentioning french and italian private bond holders in your text so it actually refers to sovereign debt. But you are right globally French bankers are more exposed. However when you imply that opinions are supported by emotions well if I was Germany 23 billions in Greek debt, would be a fact that would make me pretty emotional.
   Now I have a good reading for you here http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/09/europe-201109
5. Matt on February 13th, 2012 08:58 GMT
   

   I still disagree with you. Many of the French and Italian banks hold municipal, non sovereign, debt. Additionally they hold bonds in entities through which they operate locally in the lending business in Greece. Also a big portion of securitized debt is held in their books as a result of retail loan packaging. We could split hairs here over definitions which is not my intention.

   My overall point is that Germany is wrongly accused of trying to harm Greek individuals and the economy overall by enforcing stringent terms on additional loans. It is very hard for European governments to sell their tax payer the idea that they are in for another couple billions for something nobody really understands. The problem right now is that there is a media and political scare that a Greek default must unleash chaos and that it is the worst option: This argument has never been investigated nor proven and certainly has no politician made the effort to actually put the cards on the table and back up their claims with evidence. Why not? Simple: Political motivations especially in France but also in Germany. I do not believe that a default soon may spell a worse outcome to all European countries (including Greece) in comparison to keeping them afloat and forcing them to do things Greeks do not want themselves.
6. Matt on February 13th, 2012 09:06 GMT
   

   Sorry but I refuse to read anything that relates the current mess in financial markets to The Third Reich, Hitler, and I find it especially hilarious when Hypo or Commerzbank is blamed for the Irish and partially even for the American mortgage crisis (I know Lewis’s claims). There is a reason he is a writer and not a trader nor banker and as writer, especially in the US, you can pretty much take liberty to link current events to whatever pleases you. I refuse to follow such arguments because they are unfounded.
7. Matt on February 13th, 2012 09:08 GMT
   

   And I recommend Michael to keep his head stuck in domestic matters rather than accusing Germans for being anti-European for not forgiving every single last penny of European periphery debt. Laughable, sorry I dont know what else to say. Maybe you can tell me how you feel if someone accuses you for being anti-social, anti-democratic by not covering all your neighbors’s debt burden?
8. Matt on February 13th, 2012 09:13 GMT
   

   Christine, and sorry I heated up a little, but here is an opinion I share re Michael Lewis’s latest attempt at journalism:

   http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/14/feces-fascists-and-michael-lewis/
9. Christine on February 13th, 2012 09:54 GMT
   

   Man you’re so emotional! I love it
10. Matt on February 13th, 2012 10:23 GMT
    

    Absolutely

    Not about you or anyone in particular but about what is being done to those who seemingly did the right thing. Mediocre people and entities are kept alive in the name of “shared responsibility” where in the most absurd way responsibility is defined by those who have most abused it. It applies to many of the too-big-to-fail banks, political empires, and corporations. The problem is that the general public has become numb to actual problems through inventions and politics that were supposed to improve our lives but in the end they put us into a comatose state from which only a few awoke. We should be rising up and shout out a clear NO to the abhorrent injustice being done in the name of politics. This is what makes me very emotional. Living in Japan I see this culture and economy go down the drain while the youth and adults alike are addicted to their virtual worlds into which they escaped long time ago. There is zero comprehension nor interest to engage in politics in order to change the current suicidal course. It makes me sad and emotional.